Spore Creatures and Drawn Images: Debate Thread

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Spore Creatures and Drawn Images: Debate Thread

Post by ViperaUnion on Sat Jun 01, 2013 1:44 pm

Due to recent debates in the advertisement thread, I have made this new thread to give the debate its own place. Recently, various members have been discussing the use of Spore in Ruthless Galaxy, and if it is useful or a hindrance to creative freedom, and if it is a crutch or asset to our club. In this thread members can debate whether or not members should use drawn images to submit races, or make creations in Spore. This subject also covers complications of each, as well as whether our group should distance itself from Spore Entirely.

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Re: Spore Creatures and Drawn Images: Debate Thread

Post by The Cunning Linguist on Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:08 pm

Both, probably. There's still a place for spore creations (especially for adventures), but there's also a place for creating entirely drawn creations. I mean, some guys have made empires without making them in spore, so they could always draw them out/request others to make them in spore/draw them.

But then there's also the area where you might think you can't make such a thing in Spore, but in the end you can. When I made the Kzhudzho, I tried to make the head completely unique from any pre-existing Spore parts (but I drew the body with Spore parts in mind). I ended up making them in the Creature stage, and I was quite surprised how good it turned out. If you want to know what a Kzhudzho looks like, it's on my signature. And if you aren't talking about the RGverse, there's plenty of fan-creations in Spore of things you wouldn't expect to be able to be made in Spore.

So, in the end, such a question needn't be asked, you can always draw a creation without making it in spore if you like Smile. Oh, and Vipera, can you possibly make a Barlowe-ian species that is completely alien (i.e. no jaws; eyes don't look like any earth eyes; 4 limbs is too cliche)? Just asking.

Also one thing about making RG completely unrelated to Spore: We wouldn't get so many members, if any. Not everyone has the best drawing talent, and not everyone would be willing to make EVERYTHING that others can't make.
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Re: Spore Creatures and Drawn Images: Debate Thread

Post by ViperaUnion on Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:49 pm

What if someone doesn't like the idea of their creations being turned into video game characters and avatars that just anyone who finds them can use? This is another of the issues I have with Spore. I don't have any desire for my characters to be used by anyone other than me, I don't want them being copied or changed, and I especially don't want them turned into games. I also believe that it may not harm getting new members to distance ourselves from Spore. You won't get as many gamers, but you aren't going to be associated with a video game whose community is considered to be slowly dwindling away. You might attract more people who enjoy being artistic and drawing their own creations, and Ruthless Galaxy could change from being a Spore Spin-off forum (Because that's sort of what it is currently) to its own unique identity. Not being associated with a game would also appeal to a wider range of age groups.

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Re: Spore Creatures and Drawn Images: Debate Thread

Post by The Cunning Linguist on Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:22 pm

ViperaUnion wrote:What if someone doesn't like the idea of their creations being turned into video game characters and avatars that just anyone who finds them can use? This is another of the issues I have with Spore. I don't have any desire for my characters to be used by anyone other than me, I don't want them being copied or changed, and I especially don't want them turned into games. I also believe that it may not harm getting new members to distance ourselves from Spore. You won't get as many gamers, but you aren't going to be associated with a video game whose community is considered to be slowly dwindling away. You might attract more people who enjoy being artistic and drawing their own creations, and Ruthless Galaxy could change from being a Spore Spin-off forum (Because that's sort of what it is currently) to its own unique identity. Not being associated with a game would also appeal to a wider range of age groups.

Then don't push the "Publish Online" button? Neutral
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Re: Spore Creatures and Drawn Images: Debate Thread

Post by Whos on Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:37 pm

Vipera, I know you have pointed out some of Spore's weaker points, but those could be roughly taken care of if we use image-hosting sites, then just toss adventures and such back and forth via them, no publishing to Sporepedia required. I understand the computer you have Spore on doesn't allow image hosting sites for whatever reason, but couldn't you just install Spore on a computer that does?

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Re: Spore Creatures and Drawn Images: Debate Thread

Post by The Cunning Linguist on Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:38 pm

Does the image hosting-thingy on this forum count as "not working"?
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Re: Spore Creatures and Drawn Images: Debate Thread

Post by Whos on Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:40 pm

We're talking about a separate site, like photobucket, imageshack, tinypic, or DeviantArt, which is needed to upload something like the image of an adventure or creation from one's computer files to this forum.

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Re: Spore Creatures and Drawn Images: Debate Thread

Post by The Cunning Linguist on Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:48 pm

Whoster wrote:We're talking about a separate site, like photobucket, imageshack, tinypic, or DeviantArt, which is needed to upload something like the image of an adventure or creation from one's computer files to this forum.

There seems to be an image-hosting thingie here as well... I use it so I don't fill up my Imageshack too much
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Re: Spore Creatures and Drawn Images: Debate Thread

Post by Whos on Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:51 pm

There is? I mean of course there is.

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Re: Spore Creatures and Drawn Images: Debate Thread

Post by The Cunning Linguist on Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:55 pm

But wait a second... about the "other people using our stuff" thing... maybe some of us could use that to our advantage? A popular creation/adventure can spread the word about RG! (Which is touched upon on the other thread)
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Re: Spore Creatures and Drawn Images: Debate Thread

Post by ViperaUnion on Sat Jun 01, 2013 5:25 pm

Count me out of that idea, I specifically said I didn't want people copying me. I want what I make to be unique, not categorized as Spore Creations. I don't want something I make to be popular if people steal it.

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Re: Spore Creatures and Drawn Images: Debate Thread

Post by The Cunning Linguist on Sat Jun 01, 2013 5:28 pm

ViperaUnion wrote:Count me out of that idea, I specifically said I didn't want people copying me. I want what I make to be unique, not categorized as Spore Creations. I don't want something I make to be popular if people steal it.

Exactly what I meant, just that I misrepresented it :p
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Re: Spore Creatures and Drawn Images: Debate Thread

Post by The Cunning Linguist on Sat Jun 01, 2013 5:35 pm

An image of a Gyelidoran I made a few minutes ago (as of 5:36 PM June 1st, 2013):
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The original Spore creation:
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So what do you think now?
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Re: Spore Creatures and Drawn Images: Debate Thread

Post by ViperaUnion on Sat Jun 01, 2013 5:56 pm

It's pretty good, but you're overlooking the drawing style, as well as the fact that your drawing is based on a Spore creation, not the other way around. Your style of drawing is different from mine. Here is an example of something I drew that was unrelated to Ruthless Galaxy. Please note we have a better scanner now, but this one was done on the printer.

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You could probably give it veins, but you couldn't make it transparent where you could see its organs and bones, and I doubt there is a mouth with the proper shape, or gills in the creator. It might not even allow you to put in the twelve suction tentacles on its stomach and back, and this is only the inner part of the creature, it lives in a clam.

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Re: Spore Creatures and Drawn Images: Debate Thread

Post by The Cunning Linguist on Sat Jun 01, 2013 6:05 pm

ViperaUnion wrote:It's pretty good, but you're overlooking the drawing style, as well as the fact that your drawing is based on a Spore creation, not the other way around. Your style of drawing is different from mine. Here is an example of something I drew that was unrelated to Ruthless Galaxy. Please note we have a better scanner now, but this one was done on the printer.

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You could probably give it veins, but you couldn't make it transparent where you could see its organs and bones, and I doubt there is a mouth with the proper shape, or gills in the creator. It might not even allow you to put in the twelve suction tentacles on its stomach and back, and this is only the inner part of the creature, it lives in a clam.

Of course, I made it only in a few minutes, I was kinda lazy Sleep... (hehehehe...)

But wait! I haven't shown you my original drawing, and I forgot to add commentary on that! I left my sketchbook at school, but if I had it here, I would have posted it there below it.
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Re: Spore Creatures and Drawn Images: Debate Thread

Post by ViperaUnion on Sat Jun 01, 2013 6:16 pm

You do realize you kind of gave me a challenge, right? You've already motivated me to start drawing an alien monster that doesn't have jaws or eyes that are present on Earth creatures, and it won't have four legs, either, and if I want to make something complex on purpose...well, let's just say it has about 32 eyes already.

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Re: Spore Creatures and Drawn Images: Debate Thread

Post by The Cunning Linguist on Sat Jun 01, 2013 7:11 pm

ViperaUnion wrote:You do realize you kind of gave me a challenge, right? You've already motivated me to start drawing an alien monster that doesn't have jaws or eyes that are present on Earth creatures, and it won't have four legs, either, and if I want to make something complex on purpose...well, let's just say it has about 32 eyes already.

I call this, "Barloweism". I'd guess you could get inspired by looking up "strange alien" on Google.
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Re: Spore Creatures and Drawn Images: Debate Thread

Post by ViperaUnion on Sat Jun 01, 2013 7:25 pm

I actually looked up Barlowe, didn't know who that was.

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Re: Spore Creatures and Drawn Images: Debate Thread

Post by Zaroas on Sat Jun 01, 2013 7:44 pm

I agree with Vipera here. Spore limits a lot of creative design and such, an example being the drawing shown on the last page. We need to distance ourselves from it, honestly. Raptor, you brought up the point that drawing may make people not want to join - Actually, Spore would do this as well. Say you want to join RG. However, you don't want to dish out $60 for Spore and its expansions on Steam or something. We'd actually be pushing away a bigger audience than welcoming a smaller one. I don't have access to GA anymore so I know how this feels - I can't play any adventures, and if we embrace Spore as a tool, then I can't do anything. With the way you're describing it, Raptor, it seems like a crutch - You need it to draw.

Also, just to prove a point, here's one of Wayne Barlowe's illustrations.
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The detail here is utterly fantastic. With Spore, that kind of detail simply isn't possible. Yes, you can use freedom, but I've never gotten that to work - It's very finicky.

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Re: Spore Creatures and Drawn Images: Debate Thread

Post by ViperaUnion on Sat Jun 01, 2013 7:46 pm

Whenever I use freedom, it expands how many parts you can use, but it still has a limit.

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Re: Spore Creatures and Drawn Images: Debate Thread

Post by The Cunning Linguist on Sat Jun 01, 2013 8:06 pm

Zaroas wrote:I agree with Vipera here. Spore limits a lot of creative design and such, an example being the drawing shown on the last page. We need to distance ourselves from it, honestly. Raptor, you brought up the point that drawing may make people not want to join - Actually, Spore would do this as well. Say you want to join RG. However, you don't want to dish out $60 for Spore and its expansions on Steam or something. We'd actually be pushing away a bigger audience than welcoming a smaller one. I don't have access to GA anymore so I know how this feels - I can't play any adventures, and if we embrace Spore as a tool, then I can't do anything. With the way you're describing it, Raptor, it seems like a crutch - You need it to draw.

Also, just to prove a point, here's one of Wayne Barlowe's illustrations.
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The detail here is utterly fantastic. With Spore, that kind of detail simply isn't possible. Yes, you can use freedom, but I've never gotten that to work - It's very finicky.
Maybe not quite... But I see you've also misunderstood my standing. I say that we should accept BOTH drawing AND making your creations in Spore. And there'd be not much of a difference, since we've already got unillustrated empires and whatnot. Spore just makes everything easier. I mean, I can do both.
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Re: Spore Creatures and Drawn Images: Debate Thread

Post by ViperaUnion on Sat Jun 01, 2013 8:24 pm

I dunno, I finished that drawing I was talking about. This was the end result, after I decided to run it through a burn filter to change its color

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Re: Spore Creatures and Drawn Images: Debate Thread

Post by Zaroas on Sat Jun 01, 2013 8:41 pm

Very nice job, Vipera.

Maybe not quite... But I see you've also misunderstood my standing. I say that we should accept BOTH drawing AND making your creations in Spore. And there'd be not much of a difference, since we've already got unillustrated empires and whatnot. Spore just makes everything easier. I mean, I can do both.

I don't see the particular creation in question, I was using that as a specific example because it has a lot of detail. I agree that drawing is fine, and for the time being Spore is as well, but I feel like you're proposing that we should use it for a little too much. We shouldn't use Spore to advertise as much as you're proposing. If we do that it's a crutch. If we use it a little bit while there's still a fanbase then stop, then sure. But I don't want to rely on it. If it won't make a difference then we might as well not bother and advertise as an RP club (Which we are) on an RP forum or something. This will help more than ANY Spore creation or drawing if it won't make a difference. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

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Re: Spore Creatures and Drawn Images: Debate Thread

Post by The Cunning Linguist on Sat Jun 01, 2013 8:55 pm

Zaroas wrote:Very nice job, Vipera.

Maybe not quite... But I see you've also misunderstood my standing. I say that we should accept BOTH drawing AND making your creations in Spore. And there'd be not much of a difference, since we've already got unillustrated empires and whatnot. Spore just makes everything easier. I mean, I can do both.

I don't see the particular creation in question, I was using that as a specific example because it has a lot of detail. I agree that drawing is fine, and for the time being Spore is as well, but I feel like you're proposing that we should use it for a little too much. We shouldn't use Spore to advertise as much as you're proposing. If we do that it's a crutch. If we use it a little bit while there's still a fanbase then stop, then sure. But I don't want to rely on it. If it won't make a difference then we might as well not bother and advertise as an RP club (Which we are) on an RP forum or something. This will help more than ANY Spore creation or drawing if it won't make a difference. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Not as much as I'm proposing, but as much as anyone else could. I'm guessing not EVERYONE here is so good at drawing. What I mean by "making a difference", is that drawing it is already good enough, as we have unillustrated empires. It's... hard to explain, but I forgot what I meant by that anyways. I think my incorrectness of terms is making some conflict, but I can see you don't like using Spore.

ViperaUnion wrote:I dunno, I finished that drawing I was talking about. This was the end result, after I decided to run it through a burn filter to change its color

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Hm... say, what if I make a challenge to see if I can make this on Spore? Let's see how this turns out...
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Re: Spore Creatures and Drawn Images: Debate Thread

Post by Zaroas on Sat Jun 01, 2013 9:00 pm

KzhuRaptor wrote:
Zaroas wrote:Very nice job, Vipera.

Maybe not quite... But I see you've also misunderstood my standing. I say that we should accept BOTH drawing AND making your creations in Spore. And there'd be not much of a difference, since we've already got unillustrated empires and whatnot. Spore just makes everything easier. I mean, I can do both.

I don't see the particular creation in question, I was using that as a specific example because it has a lot of detail. I agree that drawing is fine, and for the time being Spore is as well, but I feel like you're proposing that we should use it for a little too much. We shouldn't use Spore to advertise as much as you're proposing. If we do that it's a crutch. If we use it a little bit while there's still a fanbase then stop, then sure. But I don't want to rely on it. If it won't make a difference then we might as well not bother and advertise as an RP club (Which we are) on an RP forum or something. This will help more than ANY Spore creation or drawing if it won't make a difference. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Not as much as I'm proposing, but as much as anyone else could. I'm guessing not EVERYONE here is so good at drawing. What I mean by "making a difference", is that drawing it is already good enough, as we have unillustrated empires. It's... hard to explain, but I forgot what I meant by that anyways. I think my incorrectness of terms is making some conflict, but I can see you don't like using Spore.

It's not that I absolutely hate it, it's that I don't have access to it on this computer. I used up my 5 installs and the computer I used to play on is taken apart and sitting in a box in my basement. I don't know how to put a computer together.

I think we should use drawings in our advertisements, but we can still consider this an RP. Adventures we shouldn't need to use, especially with how much detail can be missed making one. Many members have missed out on some great stories because, rather than put into words, they were in an adventure,

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